[00:02] <vruz> 17:46 < vruz> awesome work guys
[00:02] <vruz> 17:46 * vruz just read the report #2
[00:05] <cfbolz> thanks
[00:05] <cfbolz> still way to go
[00:17] <stakkars> mwh, cfbolz: great report!
[00:17] <stakkars> ich komm gleich mal rüber
[00:17] <cfbolz> gute sache
[00:18] <stakkars> the report suggests that I got further than I actually got. Willdo that in the train, tomorrow...
[00:19] <cfbolz> :-)
[00:19] <cfbolz> I just looked at it
[00:19] <cfbolz> looks quite good
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[00:20] <stakkars> found a way to write the mixed module in a way that it stays testable in Python level.
[00:20] <stakkars> i.e. by faking the basic functionality, which would need Stackless Python.
[00:21] <cfbolz> cool
[00:21] <cfbolz> we could also use greenlets
[00:22] <stakkars> yes, maybe.Not on the very basic level, involving this return_continuation thing, basically.
[00:22] <cfbolz> right
[00:23] <stakkars> the API uses quite some abstraction to define the interface and does not implement any switching directly.
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[00:24] <stakkars> I can plug a fake class which mimicks the task switching, without really doing something else.
[00:25] <stakkars> but for testing, the only interesting aspects are existance,blocking and all that of tasklets, they don't need to compute anything than tasklet state, whether they are in channels,etc.
[00:25] <stakkars> the real thing gets redirected to something like RIchard's stuff, or something else.
[00:26] <stakkars> it is just great that PyPy doesn't punish you for indirection, if it can be folded away.
[00:26] <cfbolz> :-)
[00:26] <stakkars> I write better style in RPython than in Python, because that "it is slow" thing is gone
[00:27] <sabi> haha
[00:27] <cfbolz> hehe
[00:27] <sabi> yeah, that is a good point, all the tricks you use to get rid of python function call overhead, etc.
[00:28] <sabi> a jit will help too :)
[00:28] <stakkars> it is really a point
[00:28] <stakkars> sure it will. That's Nirvana. For now, I'm happy with never-never-land
[00:30] <nik_> good night + good trip
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[01:09] <hpk> it's possible that there will be some repository downtime because of some maintenance
[01:09] <hpk> but i somehow don't think there is going to be a lot of activity tonight :)
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[01:32] <hpk> ups, made it back?
[01:33] <stakkars> yup
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[09:24] <braintone> lene - r21067 - right contract number - we have number 004779, hope this is the right place to change it
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[10:28] <braintone> hpk - r21068 - fix ReST problem
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[12:24] <lac> hi armin
[12:26] <arigo> hi!
[12:34] <ericvrp_> hello everyone!
[12:34] <ericvrp_> nik_: how's you ear doing?
[12:38] <nik_> ericvrp_: it hasn't exploded, yet ;)
[12:39] <nik_> but hearing is still impaired ...
[12:39] <nik_> how was your trip back?
[12:39] <ericvrp_> ericvrp_: great trip. watched a movie and read a little
[12:39] <ericvrp_> did you fly already?
[12:40] <adim> Hi everyone
[12:40] <nik_> yep, flew yesterday
[12:40] <nik_> hi admi
[12:40] <ericvrp_> bonjour
[12:40] <nik_> adim
[12:40] <arigo> hi everyone
[12:41] <adim> ericvrp_: I wish I could say that in Dutch :)
[12:42] <ericvrp_> it's: goede dag
[12:42] <adim> I'll try to remember that for tomorrow, then
[12:57] <braintone> arigo - r21069 - A talk for the (internal) Winter Meeting of the Chalmers Computer Science departement, in Gothenburg. Abstract only so far. I plan to submit something very similar to the CCC paper, if neither confer
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[13:03] <braintone> arigo - r21070 - Changed the title, focusing on the particular aspect that I want to talk about.
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[13:36] <braintone> arigo - r21072 - Starting to make the BlockState a subclass of LLAbstractValue, in the idea that when inlining a graph the current state should contain a chain of BlockStates corresponding to the caller's frames.
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[13:44] <braintone> arigo - r21073 - Get rid of the too general 'hints'. They go in the way...
[13:52] <braintone> arigo - r21074 - Consistently pass LLBlockStates around instead of args_a lists.
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[15:51] <braintone> arigo - r21079 - Inlining. Currently with a policy to select between either the old behavior or full inlining. At some point we should try to detect when inlining is necessary.
[15:54] <braintone> arigo - r21080 - Use the LLAbstractInterp inlining instead of the backendopt one in this test.
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[17:10] <Gromit> Hi Christian
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[17:44] <cfbolz> hi!
[17:45] <Gromit> hi
[17:45] <hpk> hey carl!
[17:51] <mwh> hi carl
[17:51] <cfbolz> hi michael!
[17:51] <cfbolz> rest of the trip went ok?
[17:51] <mwh> cfbolz: did you know that the train i got on in hamburg went to heidelberg?
[17:52] <mwh> yes, fine
[17:52] <mwh> though it was quite busy so i was glad to have a reservation
[17:52] <cfbolz> mwh: yes, I knew
[17:52] <cfbolz> but it arrived in heidelberg much later than the one I took
[17:52] <mwh> ok
[17:53] <cfbolz> rather: arrives
[17:53] <mwh> ah ha, i thought that was quite possible
[17:53] <cfbolz> at 18 something :-)
[17:53] <mwh> ouch
[17:53] <cfbolz> duesseldorf is not really the direct route, so no surprise there :-)
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[18:02] <cfbolz> darn
[18:10] Action: mwh feels like he will be going to bed pretty soon
[18:11] <cfbolz> :-)
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[18:32] <lac> what are the majorca dates?
[18:33] <cfbolz> hi laura!
[18:33] <cfbolz> sorry that I couldn't say bye yesterday
[18:33] <mwh> http://pypycal.sabi.net/month.php?cal=PyPy&getdate=20060101 !
[18:33] <mwh> :)
[18:34] <lac> carl, so was I - you will need six pecks on the cheeks when next I meet.
[18:34] <cfbolz> :-)
[18:34] <lac> so at any rate, it was a pleasure as always to have you.
[18:35] <lac> and when you get a minute, tell me if the food was ok for you.
[18:35] <lac> I worry, and need improvement.
[18:35] <cfbolz> the food was wonderful -- thanks for caring that much
[18:38] Action: lac blushes
[18:40] <lac> All I care about is 'that my guests are happy'
[18:40] <lac> it is a sad commentary on the world that you seem to experience this as
[18:41] <lac> 'that my guests are happy, unless they are vegetarians, who are a bother, and who the hell cares ?'
[18:42] <lac> If you actually care about your guests
[18:42] <lac> as opposed to care about looking as if you care about your guests
[18:42] <lac> then seeing the vegetarians are fed is a worry.
[18:43] <lac> er, well fed,
[18:43] <lac> er, happily fed,
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[18:43] <cfbolz> my ususally experience really is that "I worry that my guests are happy until they prove to be vegetarians."
[18:43] <lac> er, you get thje idea
[18:43] <cfbolz> :-)
[18:43] <cfbolz> yes
[18:43] <sabi> heh
[18:44] <lac> this demonstrates a certain lack of caring that I find fairly offensive in a host.
[18:45] <mwh> well, i worry about cooking for vegetarians because it's something i simply don't do very often
[18:45] <cfbolz> well, but being not able to cook something vegetarian is not really the problem
[18:46] <lac> The offense is the assuming that all people are meat eaters, like all programmers are men, or all dancers are female
[18:47] <lac> so, before you first showed up here, I asked
[18:47] <lac> this is the sort of simple courtesy I wish all vegetarians were extended
[18:47] <cfbolz> indeed
[18:49] <lac> then, of course, I have the problem of whether I can cook it well.
[18:49] <lac> but that's not so hard. The problem is that if you read certain bio-whatever-it-is-inEnglish
[18:50] <lac> macrobiotic. I think
[18:50] <lac> texts, Iam supposed to be measruing
[18:50] <lac> how many legumes
[18:50] <lac> and how many of this sort and the other sort
[18:50] <lac> you are being fed to assure a proper balance.
[18:50] <lac> else there are vitamin deficiencies.
[18:51] <lac> I figure, one week with 'not enough cheese' say, would not damnage you much
[18:51] <lac> but I do wonder -- do you keep those things in mind?
[18:53] <cfbolz> nope
[18:53] <cfbolz> not at all :-)
[19:01] Action: cfbolz is off to buy some totally vegetarian food
[19:12] <tic> mm, meat..
[19:12] <mwh> time for me to eat too
[19:19] <xorAxAx> "18:51:32 < lac> The offense is the assuming that all people are meat eaters, like all programmers are men, or all dancers are female
[19:19] <xorAxAx> hmm, i would say that there are less vegetarians than female programmers, arent there? :-)
[19:19] <xorAxAx> (relatively taken)
[19:21] <tic> look at india...
[19:22] <tic> (many people there are vegetarians)'
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[19:25] <xorAxAx> tic: ok, i am just talking about western societies. that might sound harsh but is a simplification because i havent been in india :)
[19:25] <tic> xorAxAx, then your statement holds.
[19:26] <xorAxAx> esp. southern countries in europe have a high rate of female students in CS etc.
[19:29] <tic> in particular?
[19:29] <tic> (which countries)
[19:33] <xorAxAx> spain, italy
[19:34] <tic> Didn't know..
[19:34] <tic> In my class, when we started, there were 160 students of which 8 were girls.
[19:34] <tic> Think it's 140 students and 4-5 girls left.
[19:35] <tic> CS & E, though.
[19:35] <xorAxAx> thats even less than in germany
[19:35] <xorAxAx> so there is really a kind of gradient
[19:35] <tic> probably..
[19:36] <xorAxAx> at least that was said by the paper
[19:36] <xorAxAx> i know this from
[19:36] <xorAxAx> its really about deep sociological differences
[19:37] <tic> Yeah.
[19:37] <tic> swedes don't want education ;)
[19:37] <tic> chemistry is almost the other way around though; 75% girls or such.
[19:38] <sabi> a lot of it has to do with how things are taught, i think
[19:38] <xorAxAx> maybe they want to know how to mix their cosmetics
[19:38] Action: xorAxAx ducks ;-)
[19:38] <tic> there -might- be a different reason to it. ;)
[19:53] <cfbolz> now the question is of course: how many female vegetarian programmers are there...
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[20:16] <lac> tic: I am part of the project to measure -- how come so many women in chemi
[20:16] <lac> and the answer we have now is:
[20:17] <lac> 'because my freinds want to/did'
[20:17] <lac> this is surprising
[20:22] <tic> Wow.
[20:22] <tic> Then it means that with some more marketing, D could become as large as K
[20:24] <sabi> should i set the 'suggested_primitive' flag for any ll_* function that gets implemented in C?
[20:24] Action: sabi is having trouble figuring out exactly what it does
[20:24] <nik_> sabi: yes, you have to set it
[20:25] <sabi> nik_: thanks.
[20:25] <nik_> if you don't, the flowgraph of the ll-function gets turned to C code automatically
[20:25] <sabi> oh, heh, in this case that would be bad :)
[20:25] <nik_> which is nice, too, if you want it
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[20:42] <mwh> i guess nik_ knows more about it than most by now :)
[20:43] Action: sabi finally got past the weird errors he was seeing (think it was a stack overflow) and things are going pretty smoothly now
[20:44] <sabi> dunno what it is, i see a lot more opcodes in translated code than in nontranslated
[20:45] <mwh> ?
[20:45] <mwh> concept error (core dumped)
[20:46] <hpk> so it's not just me not understanding :)
[20:46] <mwh> i can think of some things that *might* mean :)
[20:47] <sabi> sorry :)
[20:47] <sabi> i mean i'm tracing bytecodes and i end up seeing a lot more in translated code
[20:47] <sabi> but i haven't investigated yet
[20:47] <hpk> "tracing bytecodes"?
[20:47] <sabi> printing them out
[20:48] <sabi> in pypy.interpreter.executioncontext.bytecode_trace
[20:55] <xorAxAx> i.e. translated code prodcues different interpreter bytecode?
[20:55] <nik_> hm, but translated code is, uhm, translated. it's not in bytecode form anymore, right?
[20:55] <sabi> xorAxAx: yes.
[20:55] <sabi> at least the way i'm looking at it
[20:55] <xorAxAx> sabi: because other compilers are working, i guess ;-)
[20:56] <nik_> "translated code" == "code running on pypy-c"?
[20:56] <sabi> nik_: sorry yeah
[20:56] Action: sabi realizes where he screwed up describing now
[20:56] <hpk> nik_: if you run a python function on top of pypy or pypy-c then bytecode_trace should get invoked uniformly
[20:56] <sabi> meaning "code running on translated pypy"
[20:56] <hpk> or what i am not getting
[20:56] <sabi> it may be that the interactive interpreter works slightly differently
[20:57] <nik_> hpk: yep, i see that
[20:57] <hpk> that is indeed possible
[20:57] <sabi> when i hit return between >>>> prompts I get about a screenful of bytecodes from pypy-c and only 5 or so from py.py
[20:57] <hpk> we shuld call it pypy-cpython anywa
[20:57] <hpk> maybe running with our file implemnentation changes things
[20:58] <hpk> the translated pypy-c uses our app-level file impl IIRC
[20:58] <hpk> while the default py.py does not
[20:58] <hpk> so more bytecodes will be seen by pypy-c
[20:58] Action: sabi nods.
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[21:51] <braintone> cfbolz - r21089 - add start of funding line
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[23:51] <nik_> lac: still there?
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[00:00] --- Tue Dec 13 2005